Database Name: dbwzecoixet92g Single Dad Sober Dad – A Dad’s Path

Transcript: #38- Sober Dad

 


Today we interview Matt from Single Dad, Sober Dad. He tells us his story of getting sober while sharing real stories, advice, and unexpected positives of not drinking. We also go through some challenges of being sober, and talk about ways to moderate.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Stitcher, or on your favorite podcast platform. Like this episode? Check out more of our Dad Podcasts.


Will Braunstein:

Hi, and welcome. I’m here with Matt Weldon. Matt runs the podcast, Single Dad, Sober Dad. Welcome, Matt.

Matt Sober Dad:

Thank you for having me.

Will Braunstein:

Thanks for joining us. We’re really excited to have you today. And before we start, you can find Matt on Instagram @singledadsoberdad where you can follow his posts and follow along on his journey. We’re going to dive right in. So Matt, can you, I guess, start and tell us Single Dad, Sober Dad. Where should we start? Should we start with sober dad maybe?

Matt Sober Dad:

Sure, yeah. Well, about five years ago, what I came to realize was that I couldn’t get sober on my own. I tried a million times, and any alcoholic or addict will probably tell you the same story, the person’s ego doesn’t really allow them to find help outside of themselves. So I was actually called into, we’ll call it an intervention with my mom, my sister, my girlfriend at the time, and a family friend who was a pastor that also happened to be in recovery himself for 20 plus years or so. And they called me to the church, which I don’t go to, but that’s where they wanted to meet. I was fully aware of what they wanted to talk about so it wasn’t like a big surprise.

Matt Sober Dad:

And I walked into the room and it was four people sitting on one side of the room and me on the other side, so I already felt victimized or attacked right when I walked. They each went through and talked about their concerns and different ideas of what I probably should do, and I told them adamantly, “There is no way I am going to outpatient. I’m just not going to do it.” I’ll miss Jack’s baseball games, I’ll miss this and I’ll miss this, because this was during the summer. And the pastor said, “Well, how’s everything working out for you with you not going to rehab?” I said, “Well, I can do it on my own,” and I said that multiple times. And again, I felt like I was being attacked, and when you feel like you’re getting attacked you go into that defensive mode.

Matt Sober Dad:

And I literally walked out of the church with both middle fingers extended to the four people in the room, got in my car and I drove home, and I said, “F them. There’s no way that I’m going to rehab.” There’s no way I’m spending 30 days away from my family and my business and whatever else. And I pulled in my driveway and I walked upstairs and I had a breakdown, I guess. And I think I realized that I needed to surrender. That’s a big word in sobriety, surrendering. And I had to seek help outside of me and outside of attending AA meetings every so often. Normally when somebody was on my back about getting to a meeting, so those didn’t really do it for me because I was going for somebody else and not myself.

Matt Sober Dad:

I had my last drink June 4th, 2017, and then that day my sister came over and we looked for some rehab places and I said, “I don’t want to go anywhere near home. I need to get away.” And we ended up settling on a facility up in Minnesota. It’s one of the Betty Ford facilities. It’s apparently rated one of the best facilities. That facility in Minnesota is one of the best in the world. So I got up there I believe it was June 11th of 2017 and checked in. I had been sober for a week, and little did I know that you didn’t have to be sober to check in. Most people that were checking in were… You have to go through detox when you get up there for one night. I was sober and like, “What the heck is going on here? Why do I have to do this?” And it’s protocol or whatever else. And the person that I was sharing the detox room with was a complete mess. I mean, curled up in a ball and asking me for water and this, that, and the other thing.

Matt Sober Dad:

I really kind of felt gypped because I didn’t know that I couldn’t drink for another week. I still laugh about that because people were coming in, they said, “Yeah, my wife drove me up here and I finished off a couple bottles of vodka. When I got dropped off I was in the bag,” or whatever, and I’m like, “What? Is that real? Are people doing this?” And probably eight out of 10 people you talked to that’s their story. They were going one last hurrah and dumb me I was sober for a week before I got there. It’s funny because everybody else was like, “Man, you came in here a week sober over and whatever else.”

Matt Sober Dad:

But anyway I spent 28 days up there and it was the most life-changing 28 days of my life. The facility is amazing. The instructors are amazing. I almost felt guilty about talking to people about being there because it was truly top of the line. It was on a beautiful lake and you had acreage. There was a running path, and an indoor pool, and a great gym, and food was exotic style. And I felt guilty because not a lot of people have insurance or have the ability to pay for something like that, so after I got out of there I was completely grateful for the fact that I could go up there. It was a great experience.

Matt Sober Dad:

Just on that 28 days, I could probably write a book because there are some characters in rehab. You think you’ve heard some stories and you’ve got stories, spend 28 days in rehab with alcoholics and addicts and whatnot. It was interesting. It was hardcore. I mean, it wasn’t laying around and sitting by the lake all day. We were on a schedule from pretty much 7:00 AM to 9:00 PM, and you’d have an hour or so downtime here and there, but you were going, and that’s good for people that need some structure. Obviously I did. So that’s how I did it.

Will Braunstein:

Yeah, and we’ll come back to both the clinic and kind of after. It’s really interesting. I love the story of the intervention, but I’m also curious, change in general. That’s a big change going from not drinking to drinking. And you had people who love you telling you something. And you’re not the first person, everyone’s been there where we’ve been told things but we’re not hearing them maybe, but then something happened and you heard. You went upstairs and kind of broke down or you recognized… Where does that change come from? Did it feel like it was all at once or was it there’s a wall that’s slowly breaking down? I’m just curious about that moment of change where you recognized, “Hey, I need help.”

Matt Sober Dad:

Well, there was probably many, many days and moments that led up to the change. Like I said, I tried to quit, I can’t even remember how many times. Trying to quit on my own. I quit for four or five days and I quit for a week. And then I think the longest time that I can remember since high school probably is I think I made it 26 days without drinking. It was miserable because I was what they call a dry drunk. I was unhappy and I was irritable. I wasn’t drinking but I just wasn’t present.

Matt Sober Dad:

And as far as that aha moment, so to speak, I think driving home from the church that day probably made me realize that, hey, there’s three people that were there that really care about me, and they essentially said, “This is it. If you’re not going to get help, then you’ve kind of lost us.” And they’ve never said that before. They’ve always been like, “Okay, well, you tried, try again and try again and one of these times you’re going to get it,” but this time there was some finality to the conversation. And maybe that was probably the final straw because your mom, and your sister, and your girlfriend at the time saying, “Hey, we’ve supported you long enough. We can’t live like this. We can’t worry about you all the time. We can’t wonder if you’re going to make it home at night. We can’t wonder if there’s going to be an argument at night or when we’re out to dinner,” or whatever else. And they had it. And I completely understand where they were coming from but I didn’t want to hear that.

Matt Sober Dad:

I think that was probably the final straw, so to speak, and that’s when I realized, you know what, I’ve got to get some real help or I’m going to be alone, or I’m going to be in jail, or worst of all, I’m going to either kill somebody or kill myself essentially. That was probably the moment where I realized-

Will Braunstein:

That’s pretty powerful obviously having people love you that much telling you such serious things, but still you have to have that moment or moments that lead to it, so really interesting. As a parent myself, I find if I drink too much, as an example, the next day I’m short, I’m irritable, I’m not as good of a parent. And that’s something that I have really been working on understanding this sort of cause and effect relationship that, hey, having fun at night isn’t just having fun and it’s not just being tired in the morning, it’s hurting people I love as well. So not only is that something I’m trying to work on, but I’m curious, is that something that you found at all or were your issues less related to fatherhood and your kids and more just general life and that sort of thing?

Matt Sober Dad:

Well, yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. When you go out and you drink and you wake up the next day and you’re groggy, and you’re foggy, and you’re irritable and whatnot, that puts a damper on everybody’s life. One thing I didn’t do, I didn’t drink around my kids. I never, never drank around my kids, and I never had a one sip of alcohol if I was driving my kids. I’m not trying to pat myself on the back there but there was a line that I knew that I didn’t want to cross, but at the same time they knew when not to mess around with dad because he’s grumpy, or he’s mean this morning, or whatever adjective you want to use. I was just being selfish. I didn’t really see it from their point of view that, “Hey, you’re not being a very good person, let alone a very good dad.”

Matt Sober Dad:

The thing about what I did was I would drink during the day and then I would be home at a reasonable hour. So my thinking was, well, it’s not like dad’s staying out all night and getting home at 2:00 in the morning, but at the end of the day, when I would get home, I really didn’t want to be there. And that is completely selfish, but I wanted to be with my buddies, or at least people I thought were my buddies, I wanted to be out with them still, but I wanted to get home at a reasonable hour so I could say, “Hey, at least I’m not staying out till odd hours,” and that doesn’t fly. That’s just an alcoholic or an addict trying to justify certain things, and I tried that a lot. It didn’t really go well, let’s just put it that way.

Will Braunstein:

Well, because when substances are abused or are involved, you’re right you can take a break but you’re kind of looking, not you in particular, but one’s looking for their next high or for their next drink or whatever it is. So we can take breaks and say, hey, I can be a father right now and then when the kids go to bed I’m going to start drinking again, for example. But that’s a little different, or there’s a fine line there between having a drink when your kids go to bed and saying, “Go to bed so I can have a drink,” or having that mindset.

Matt Sober Dad:

Right, and that’s how it was a lot. I was fully ready for bedtime a lot of the nights. And a lot of the times they’d be like, “Bedtime? It’s only 7:30.” And I’m like, “Well, it’s dark out, so close enough,” or whatever I said, just so I had some quiet time to myself, so to speak.

Will Braunstein:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And you’re not alone. Then again, it’s a fine line. Like I feel that too on, not even about drinking, but just, “All right, guys, daddy needs a break,” but I think when you add substances in, there’s something literally chemical not natural there that you’re adding, which I’m not judging either way, but just more it’s important to be aware of it and saying, hey, there might be something else that’s pushing me. And if it is, let me not let it affect me as much or understand what’s happening at least so I’m not short with my kids for a reason that’s not, “Hey, why didn’t you brush your teeth? I told you four seconds ago.” Like, well, that’s not really the issue right now, is it? It’s like, you need your drink.

Matt Sober Dad:

Exactly. It’s nobody’s fault but your own as an addict or an alcoholic or whatever phrase you want to use. There’s innocent bystanders along the way the whole time. I don’t care what anybody says, oh, alcoholism is a victimless addiction or whatever. Well, somebody told me that and I’m like, “Are you kidding me?” “Oh, you’re only hurting yourself by drinking so much.” No, no. As far as I’m concerned, you are hurting a lot of different people, whether it’s your family, your friends, business associates, people in general. If you’re at the grocery store or the liquor store and somebody gives you a wrong look while you’re in line buying more alcohol, you’re probably going to snap at them. It is truly something that affects everybody around you on a daily basis. I didn’t want to be that person anymore and that’s the reason rehab came into the picture.

Will Braunstein:

No, and good for you. Like you’re saying, it’s the people around you. And then the other challenge which you alluded to, I’d be curious to dig into is, there’s also people that are “friends,” whether they are friends because you drink with them or they were friends before, but they’re friends. And a lot of that friendship is based on drinking, and I’m not putting this on you, but I’m sort of curious… Like I have a lot of friends where we’ll go out and have a drink or two or a couple drinks. So when you started getting sober or got sober, were they supportive? Did you need to find new friends? Maybe even more general, how do you go through that transition and what did that look like?

Matt Sober Dad:

Well, I kind of divided it into two areas. There were people that I would call friends, essentially drinking buddies that I would drink with during the week. They were from my office and there was a different crowd that we used to hang out with at one of the two bars that we’d hang out with and cutting them off was not a problem. Once I got sober, to this day I haven’t been back to that bar that I spent a majority of my time at because the last thing I’m going to do is walk in there, and I won’t say I get triggered, but it would just not be a good place for me to go in.

Matt Sober Dad:

And then the other side of that is my friends that I have grown up with. There’s a group of about 10 or 12 of us that have stayed close since kindergarten, so we’re looking at 40 plus years. And those friends, they very supportive and I talked to them when I was in rehab and they got it. They understood and they knew it was time for me to get help. Thing about those friends though is they did not offer any, I want to say advice, so to speak. They never said, “Man, you got to slow down or you need to get some help,” or whatever else. I don’t know if that’s a line that people that have known each other for so long don’t want to cross, or they don’t think it’s their place or whatnot. And I doubt it would’ve made a difference if one of my good friends said, “Hey, man, you got to get some help.” I probably would’ve said, “Yeah, yeah, you’re probably right,” and moved on.

Matt Sober Dad:

So those friends that I’ve had for 40 plus years they’ve been by my side, and there’s just a day and night difference between them and the people that I hung out with when I was drinking. I didn’t hang out with my “real friends” when I was drinking. On the weekends, or if we were playing golf, or we were going out on a Friday or Saturday night, then I’d probably hang out with my friends from our childhood, but there was my work drinking people and then there were my drinking with friends people.

Matt Sober Dad:

I had zero problem cutting off the working friends, so to speak, because I was drinking with them. That was it. I wasn’t hanging out with them at their house, or doing barbecues, or playing golf with any of those people. I was literally just drinking with them. They say misery loves company and I think that applies totally to the group that I was hanging out with. It was bad. I like to call it the cesspool of humanity is that group, and I was included in that because I was part of it. It’s not like I’m pushing blame or whatever else. I was in the center of that and it was nobody’s fault but my own that I hung out there all the time.

Will Braunstein:

Absolutely. But you got out, and you found your “true friends,” as you said, or you’ve kept them the whole time and it’s great that they supported you. And I think that’s the really important message that we should all be comfortable feeling. We have true friends and they won’t judge you for something like that. A lot of them will tell you, “Hey, you’re hurting yourself by drinking too much.” If you can take that message, great, and if friends are willing to tell you that, great, and if not, that’s totally fine too, but the very least they need to support you for you to be your best self. I totally agree. And that’s a really easy litmus test on, hey, are you a friend, right? If you just want to go out and get drunk with me and I told you that I’m not drinking, well, that’s kind of my answer.

Will Braunstein:

And I guess, I would also be curious because a lot of our society, though it’s going down, has been around drinking, going out and socializing, so I’m curious how both the environment affects you in terms of going out and if going out has changed for you. Do you still golf? Has golfing changed? If you don’t mind me asking kind of those types of questions there.

Matt Sober Dad:

I always say when I hang out with my friends, and they know by now, I don’t mind that they drink around me. When we go to the bar or restaurant for dinner or lunch they drink around me. The last thing I want to do is make anybody uncomfortable because they can’t drink around Matt. “Oh, hey, be careful. You can’t drink around Matt. He’s an alcoholic.” Now that is the complete opposite of my mindset. And when we play golf, I’m always the first one to load up the cart with beers and cocktails that I know that those guys are going to drink. And some people find that a little odd, and they are like, “Oh, doesn’t it tempt you to buy drinks for people and be around it?” It does not. I guess the word is trigger, so to speak, which is odd, and I’m very lucky and grateful that I haven’t had those, but when I’m around my friends, it is not a problem whatsoever.

Matt Sober Dad:

I almost promote drinking around me. I don’t know if I’m living vicariously through them because I had a lot of great times when I was drinking. Obviously a lot more bad times, but you can’t just erase your past because that’s just not going to happen. I know that nobody that is in my inner circle has any problems drinking around me and I have zero problems with them drinking in front of me. It just doesn’t affect me. Again, I’m lucky because there’s a lot of people out there that cannot be around it because they either, A, they are not at that point of their sobriety, or B, it puts them in a bad place.

Matt Sober Dad:

Funny when you go to the restaurants or the bar to have lunch or whatever, and the waiter or waitress walks up and they are like, “Oh, can I start you off with something to drink?” And my friends will order their beers or cocktails or whatever, and I’ll say, “Yeah, I need a ginger ale. I’m a raging alcoholic.” And the person usually looks at me and tilts their head, and my buddies are like, “Yeah, he’s serious. He’s an alcoholic. He needs a ginger ale.” And we kind of have a laugh. Again, some people aren’t as lighthearted about it, and I get that because alcoholism isn’t a joking matter, but you got to have some fun in your sobriety or you’re going to just go back to where you were. And that’s kind of what my podcast addresses, having fun in sobriety versus just white-knuckling through life because you can’t drink anymore.

Will Braunstein:

Totally, makes a lot of sense. I like that a lot. And that’s amazing that you haven’t been triggered, and that you’re almost like the ultimate host, which is a great way to go to say, “Hey, I don’t mind if you guys drink, I want you to be comfortable. I want me to be comfortable and I’m comfortable when you’re… We’re friends still. Don’t change. And I’ll let you know if I need you to do something,” I guess you’d say, right?

Matt Sober Dad:

Yeah. And one thing that’s great about being sober is that I have the ability to make decisions as a clear minded individual. And there’s been plenty of times where I’ve been out with my friends and I get to the point where I’m like, “Okay, I’ve heard that story three times. I am getting the F out of here. You guys have a nice night,” and I get in my car and I drive home, and that’s it. It’s very empowering to be able to do that, because before I was the one that wanted to stay out. If we were going out on the weekends or if we were on a guys trip or whatever, I was that guy that wanted to keep the party going, so to speak, when I probably knew that it was time to go, but now I just pack my stuff up, so to speak, get in my car and I leave.

Matt Sober Dad:

And then the next morning I get texts from whoever and they are like, “Hey. What time did you leave last night? Oh, I didn’t even… Did you say goodbye last night?” Most of the time I don’t even say goodbye, I just leave, because I don’t want to deal with the drama. “Oh, just stay for a while. Stay for a little bit longer.” Nope, I don’t want to deal with it. Just get in the car, go home. And the other beautiful part about being sober is when I do drive home from the bar, or restaurant, or wherever later at night, I don’t have to look in my rear-view mirror anymore to see who’s following me. When I say that I mean cops.

Will Braunstein:

Yeah, no, you’re sober.

Matt Sober Dad:

Yeah. I don’t want to say that but I guess I will. I almost want to get pulled over late at night for not using a blinker or rolling through a stop sign, because then I can turn over, look at the officer and not have to worry about things. It’s kind of weird want to get pulled over but it’s just something that I’ve thought about, like, man, it would be almost nice to get pulled over and not have to worry about blowing into a breathalyzer, or doing the walk, so to speak. But I haven’t gotten pulled over yet.

Will Braunstein:

It’s probably a good thing, but no, I hear you. Knowing that you would have failed a test over and over again in the past for a lot of your life and knowing that you’ve evolved into a person who’s the opposite who now welcomes it.

Matt Sober Dad:

Not really, but I think we get the point, yeah.

Will Braunstein:

Not really because then you have to deal with a ticket, but the point’s taken. So switching gears a little bit, I’m curious, you have four kids and you mentioned they range in age from 21 down to five. And as a dad podcast, we talk about fatherhood a lot and being a dad. How do you talk to your kids about drinking, or how would you? How do you think about teaching your kids about substances and using them healthy or not? What approach do you think, from your experience would you draw? And not just saying, “I’m sober so you should be obviously,” but real curious how you would approach that.

Matt Sober Dad:

Well, the 21-year-old she’s away at college and we had that conversation when she went. It kind of was like, “Hey, we understand you’re going to be on your own, you’re going to make your own decisions but please, please try to be responsible most of the time.” It’s hard. When you’re sending your kid off to college, you know more than likely that they are going to experiment, or overindulge, or whatnot. I’ve never said to any of them, “Hey, you can’t drink because I’m an alcoholic.” It was open in my house growing up but there was repercussions when I got caught when I was drinking in high school, so I don’t know if that was the whole forbidden fruit kind of thing.

Matt Sober Dad:

But I’ve tried to be very open about, you’re going to try things, you’re going to do this, you’re going to do that. There’s limits on things that I don’t want them to experiment with, you know, any hardcore drugs or whatnot. But if you’re being realistic, your kids are probably going to have a drink or do other things that you might not approve of but they are not under your roof. I’ve never had the opinion, I said never in the last five years, I’ve never had the opinion, “You are not going to drink. You are not going to smoke. You’re not going to do that,” because that to me is the green light for them to be like, “Okay, they don’t want me to do it so that means I’m going to do it even.” And I’ve always been open as far as, “Hey, if you want to talk about things, give me a call.” I don’t want to be that parent that my kids are afraid to talk about things with.

Matt Sober Dad:

And I think I’ve got a very unique perspective for them because they know that I’m a alcoholic and if they have questions they can talk to me. Same time, I think they might have a little bit of fear, so to speak, built in there where they are like, “Man, I don’t want to drink all the time because dad’s an alcoholic. I don’t want to end up wasting 20 years of my life doing that.” So there are some pros definitely on being a sober dad having those conversations.

Matt Sober Dad:

17-year-old, she’s a little on the wild side, so to speak, so we’ve had to have a few conversations about that. Prom was a couple weeks ago, so we had a couple conversations and she broke one of the rules. So again, we kind of talked about that and laid the groundwork for what you do and don’t do and being honest about certain things and whatnot. For me there’s not really a script as each kid is different.

Matt Sober Dad:

My 13-year-old, he hasn’t really asked about it yet, and I’m a little surprised at that because at 13 people are experimenting a little bit earlier than probably we used to and whatnot, but I think even he knows that if he has questions he can always ask and my door is always open, so to speak, and my phone’s always on. My five-year-old…

Will Braunstein:

Not drinking much yet.

Matt Sober Dad:

She’s not getting any liquor cabinet yet, but she’s going to understand from the very beginning that if any questions come up she can always ask. That’s pretty important to me, because my dad was kind of old school and, hey, this is how I was raised, and this is how you do it, and there’s no flexibility, and there’s no hugs, whatever, but I want to be open with my kids. I also don’t want to have to be their best friend, so to speak, because there’s a fine line between a friend and a parent and you’ve got to have some rules or bad things are going to happen and kids are going to get into bad habits. So at the same time you want to have a sympathetic ear, you want to listen to what’s going on in their life, any problems that they have, but again, you’ve got to set the standard or the bar before they make too many mistakes and kind of go off the deep end, so to speak.

Will Braunstein:

That’s right on. It’s the balance of sort of alcohol or substances being a forbidden fruit that’s totally hidden verse here’s how I can use it in a healthy way, if I can use it in a healthy way. Some people can, some people can’t. And recognizing that I think is important too.

Will Braunstein:

What I’ve seen anecdotally, and this is just anecdotal, I have a good number of friends and friends of friends whose parents were alcoholics growing up and been through that, and a lot of them drink but they are a lot more cautious in a very good way, saying, hey, I understand that this might run in my family or this is something that I might need to worry about more than others so I want to be aware. And frankly, that’s been a really healthy thing. There’s nothing wrong with that. The sort of story that you’ve put together for your kids really adds up to a great parenting experience. Understanding they can talk to you, you have rules, you need to have rules. Drinking’s not for you. Kids make their own decisions as they get older. It’s parenting. It’s a balance. I wish there was a script, that’d make it a lot easier, but there’s not.

Matt Sober Dad:

And that’s the thing, you kind of make the script up as you go, and you’ve got to have that flexibility or your kids are going to shut you off. Again, I’m not any psychologist or parenting expert, I’m just kind of going by what has worked so far. At the end of the day, you want them to respect you, and you want them to love you, and you want them to know that it’s okay to make a mistake, but just don’t make the mistake worse by lying about it or trying to cover things up and try to move on without getting caught or whatever.

Matt Sober Dad:

At the end of the day, as a parent I’m going to find out more than likely. When I was growing up I thought my parents didn’t know about this, that, and the other thing, and I found out later like, “Yeah, we knew. We didn’t want to address it, or we figured that you learned your lesson,” or whatever else. It’s different though parenting nowadays with social media. It’s very, very trying and I just don’t think if I was still drinking I would be worth anything to my kids as a parent. I appreciate the sobriety I’ve had for the last almost five years to be able to do that for them.

Will Braunstein:

That’s great you can feel that and appreciate it. That’s your story and we all have our own stories, but to me it’s very inspiring to say, hey, looking back five years if I’d continued where I was, I wouldn’t be sitting here right now, obviously on the Single Dad, Sober Dad podcast, but I wouldn’t be here, put together, well-dressed with a good-paying job and a nice family life and all that sort of thing. That’s just not going to happen. You can’t keep all those things together. And again, I’m not talking about you in particular, but just in general, there’s only so much energy we have in our life, and if we’re putting our energy, whether it’s mental or physical towards, hey, when’s my next high, when’s my next drink, whatever it is, it’s really hard to focus on the hard part. As you said, there’s no script. So how do we come up with a script to raise our kids in the right way if we’re focused in 17 other areas, because we are focused already in different areas, with our job and just our own personal baggage we’re dealing with.

Will Braunstein:

It’s really inspirational to hear your story, Matt, and see who you’ve become and the life that you’ve made for yourself. I really appreciate that you joined us today. Again, you can find Matt on Instagram on singledadsoberdad, and we hope to see you again soon, Matt. Thank you.

Matt Sober Dad:

Thanks, Will. I appreciate your time, and I had a very, very good half hour with you. Thanks again.

Will Braunstein:

Awesome. Thank you.

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