Transcript of Catherine Topham Sly
00:00.00
adadspath
Hello and welcome to another episode of a dad’s path podcast I’m will Bronstein today. We’re here with therapist Catherine topham Sly Katherine’s an expert in many things but in particular fostering happy relationships between couples after kids that’s something that many dads have expressed to me some challenges on. So. She has some fantastic downloads on our site which we’ll talk about and you can find her site insightconnection dot u k we’ll include that in in our show notes you can also find our Instagram insight and connection which will also be in the show notes. But for now what a privilege to have you welcome Catherine.
00:32.75
Catherine
Thanks for having me. Well.
00:36.58
adadspath
Awesome now This is one I’ve really been excited about because relationships obviously are always evolving but you really notice it when someone else enters the picture particularly a baby right? A new new. A new family member. So that’s where I wanted to start and you know a lot of us have older kids at home or um are not.
00:46.36
Catherine
And.
00:55.87
adadspath
At the baby stage Some of us have babies at home or have babies on the way. But regardless I’d love for you to maybe articulate the impact of a new baby How it affects relationships What you’ve seen.
01:08.88
Catherine
It’s a huge transition isn’t it. It’s one of the most stressful things that we go through really you know we tend to be really um, focused on the positive and we don’t think so much about the challenges that are going to come and um. Challenges are huge I mean sleep deprivation the stress of learning to Parent. We’re all doing something new that we haven’t done before we’re recovering meanwhile from Childbirth and pregnancy learning to feed the baby. You know all the physical impacts alone are absolutely Massive. Drop in sexual desire often comes along with that and then you’ve got the psychological stuff that’s going on as Well. You know the the change to your identity to become mom or dad is such a big deal. And then other things go with it. You know your relationships with other people in your life your your parents your other family and friends and there are so many things that we start to feel differently about that all play into our relationships. So How we feel about work family. Money time is a huge one suddenly we have so much less free time so much less freedom and lots of couples at this time slip into much more traditional roles than they expected to or plan to and so all of that puts huge pressure on your relationship you have to make.
02:35.10
Catherine
So Many more decisions together and those the decisions that you are made that you are making they tend to be more joint. They tend to be more meaningful because they’re often about the baby and um, so of course you’re going to have loads more disagreements. All the while probably not having as much sex probably not feeling as much intimacy having less conversation finding it more stressful I mean I feel like I’ve started with a huge picture of doom and gloom which is definitely not where we’re going to Stay. We’re going to talk about some very hopeful stuff about this. But I think it’s really important that we acknowledge these pressures and that we normalize them.
03:14.99
adadspath
Yeah, no I think that’s right on I was was like oh man I feel like things are so good with my part with my wife and um at at the end of your talk. Oh man I got I have work to do but it’s not I mean I think that you’re right? It’s normalizing which is key and understanding that it’s normalizing something.
03:22.71
Catherine
She.
03:32.39
adadspath
Big. It’s It’s not easy to do um to raise a child. It’s not easy to be in a relationship. It’s certainly not easy to do both those at the same time. It’s a huge stress on the relationship. So maybe number one is just acknowledging hey this isn’t going to be easy like it never is. It’s not easy for any couples.
03:38.70
Catherine
In. M.
03:48.28
adadspath
Shouldn’t be easy for us. But that doesn’t mean it’s not worth it that doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Ah, but it’ll take work right? is that the.
03:53.92
Catherine
Yeah, absolutely and part of the reason that it’s really helpful to acknowledge that it’s not easy is because when we go through it and we find it difficult if we don’t know that it’s normal and we don’t know that other people are Struggling. We’re much more likely to think that there’s something wrong with our relationship. We’re not supposed to be together that this must mean that we’re broken so actually acknowledging all of these challenges can help us to feel much more optimistic other couples go through this too and we can find a way through it.
04:23.89
adadspath
Awesome I mean so how how would you advise or how do you advise couples to address that kind of early on before it spirals out into something you know, really challenging.
04:37.59
Catherine
Um I think it’s really important to pay attention. How to how you’re feeling so you might you know I I don’t want um like I say to fit people to feel like it’s all doom and gloom and and to be too worried. You know it’s normal to have these ups and downs. But also. You know how you feel about this. So if you’re feeling like there are more downs than ups to really pay attention to that and to not just assume that things are going to get better by themselves but to see it as an opportunity when you face these challenges to have more intimacy with your partner because most of us don’t have. Loads and loads of opportunities to work through big challenges before we become parents that it’s often the first you know it’s not the same for every couple but it’s often the first huge challenge that we’ve been through together. And it gives us a real opportunity to decide. What are we going to do here. Are we going to turn away from each other. Are we going to pretend. This is not happening are we just going to hope it gets better or are we going to be open and honest with each other which ultimately is what leads us to have more intimacy is a wonderful thing when we’re able. To face these challenges be honest with each other and work through them together because on the other side we can actually be so much closer for it.
05:54.68
adadspath
That’s where you want to go? No absolutely and um, it’s inspiring to sort of see that light and you know you’re talking about it sounds like communication. You know how? how do you? But how how do you.
06:06.47
Catherine
Um.
06:09.16
adadspath
You know if I’m I’m in a relationship and I’m feeling overwhelmed I’m feeling like out of place that there’s work that I can do on my end with you know with Therapy or whatnot then there’s work that needs to happen probably with me and my partner in the family. I Mean How do you?? How do you communicate that and what does that communication look like because like anything like we’re going to be talking about intimacy. There’s no time right? like you’re just running around all day and then the only time that you have like that’s your free Time. So Do you want to sacrifice that So How do you advise couples to kind of keep that communication.
06:35.23
Catherine
Um.
06:45.17
adadspath
Going.
06:46.60
Catherine
Yeah, the thing about time is a massive challenge isn’t it when we have young children really difficult. Um, one thing that I think can be really helpful can be to think about time in terms of habits and in terms of making sure that you get regular time together.
07:04.87
Catherine
Each week each month. Um each year and also every day that’s really important so every day it might look like just spending 10 minutes together once the kids are asleep where you aren’t looking at a screen you are looking at each other and you’re having a conversation and ideally you might be having a hug as well. During that time right? because talk and touch are the 2 things that are really going to keep you most connected through this time so each day making sure that you take that time and then maybe each week you can manage something a little bit longer like an evening where you spend having a chat together and maybe each month you can manage to get a babysitter and get out. And then maybe once a year you can manage to book a weekend together. Obviously you know we have to work with what we can do and everybody you know you have to kind of adapt this to your own situation but to to really be thoughtful about where you can find it rather than thinking. Oh we just don’t have any time together. Um, and giving up and really recognizing that it is about habit and those little pockets of time really building up.
08:06.76
adadspath
Absolutely I I love that I mean because in in one sense, you feel like hey this is you know so unromantic like we used to date and we used to be spontaneous and now we’re scheduling time to sit next to each other right? like but but but to your point that’s.
08:21.80
Catherine
M.
08:25.77
adadspath
1 the way it happens and 2 just because you set it up at a at a particular time and day that you know doesn’t mean that it’s unromantic at all. You know it’s actually an opportunity right? saying hey each day I have an opportunity to connect with my partner and sure it’s not spontaneous but hey.
08:32.56
Catherine
And.
08:41.99
Catherine
But it becomes the most meaningful thing in the world when you feel like your partner’s making that effort and actually it might take you back to the very earliest days of your relationship when you did schedule time when you were going to be together. You know before you live together. You did make that effort to arrange when are we going to see each other.
08:44.36
adadspath
Doesn’t matter.
08:59.94
Catherine
And it means a lot it means I want to be with you I Want to spend time with you.
09:04.48
adadspath
Yeah, no, that’s that’s right, that’s that’s another um, that’s another benefit that’s right and you know along with those you know I’m not just going to be pitching your your products but you do have a great free download your um, openended relationship questions and I feel like. We should talk about that for a second because that’s a similar thing where you can print out this sheet of of basically open-ended questions and on 1 hand, you’re like how you know that’s not romantic like we used to be able to just talk and you know about our dreams and wishes. But. If you try it and you actually look at it like you know, know this just fosters connection I mean I’d love I love would you mind talking about them for a sec here. Katherine.
09:37.16
Catherine
Yeah, absolutely because you know one thing that I was hearing again and again is we only really talk about the practicalities now because we have to have so many conversations we kind of become a bit like business partners for a while there don’t we. It’s like you know when are the bins getting emptied have we run out of nappies. But have you responded to the nursery about that message. They sent us. You know we can so easily slip into just talking about that stuff so I wanted to create something to just inspire us to to inspire people because. Thing is it’s really hard to actually think we think I wish we could have a deeper conversation but you’re tired. You’re busy, you’re working. You’re looking after babies. It’s hard to be inspired to think of these things so it’s a list of 72 questions that are really designed to foster connection between you to open up conversations to keep things positive. And thinking about what you said about people feeling like oh maybe this is unromantic I tried to make it a bit playful. So there’s actually a couple of numbers next to each question and you can roll a couple of dice or if you’ve got like a dice app on your phone you can use it to make it a bit of a game that you’re not picking out the question you’re adding that kind of element of risk. When I roll the dice which question and am I going to have to ask you not that any of them are threatening or anything but you know it’s kind of a bit more fun and exciting that you don’t know where you’re going to go rather than choosing them yourselves. Um and I get loads of great feedback from people that opens up bigger conversations and that they’ve had a lot of fun with it. So it’s a great thing to do if you’re.
10:51.94
adadspath
Sure.
11:04.75
Catherine
You know, trying to think of something to do for an at home date night if you can’t get out. You haven’t got a babysitter. It’s a great option.
11:09.95
adadspath
I totally agree. Non-threatening and again just easy way to sort of connect and on a regular basis and you know also on the regular basis. It was funny your time about business partners. But yeah for for me and for a lot of dads I’ve spoken to the weekly meeting is incredibly helpful which again is a. Hey what are we going to make for dinner tonight. What events do we have for the kids. What do we need a plan for the kids. What do you plan for ourselves and just getting level- centered because you have so much more you’re planning and you have to think about and schedule and it’s all joint. You know it’s not before it used to be just you do your own thing and your partner could do their own thing and if you were aligned great. But if not.
11:43.90
Catherine
Um.
11:48.93
adadspath
You know that obviously changes when you have kids but it’s interesting because I think an area I’d love to hear you I’ve been thinking about I’d love to hear your thoughts on is is that role that sort of interplay between sort of feeling like a business partner and then the role of empathy in a relationship and how because in in. Business Partnerships you have you know, maybe some empathy but certainly not the same level as ah in a in a personal relationship. So How do you?? How do you?? How do you look at that because it can be so hard to go from one to the other and in some ways they’re they’re at odds. But.
12:13.52
Catherine
A.
12:21.56
Catherine
Um, absolutely I mean what we really want I think what most of us want with our partners is to feel like a team isn’t it. So everybody’s got their own particular role. But we feel really connected and like we really respect and value. What the other’s doing we feel seen by each other and I absolutely agree about having that weekly meeting is so helpful because often what happens is we kind of are living relatively sort of similar equal lives until we have kids. And then suddenly in straight couples her life often changes so much more than his and we find ourselves replicating the patterns that we saw when we were growing up. You know, much more traditional roles than we may be expected to and then what happens if we don’t talk about it enough is that we can get stuck in that. But. Resentment can build up. So I think that’s fantastic. What you say about sitting down every week and having a talk about it because the main thing that most straight women really don’t want is to feel like they’re the household manager you know they’re being expected to remember what everyone needs. And so if you can take the lead on this kind of thing as a dad you’re going to have the happiest wife in town. Really she’s going to be so pleased that you feel like a team and she’s going to feel their empathy because I think empathy.
13:43.70
Catherine
It can feel harder in this phase of life because we can become much more focused on our differences than our similarities. We can start to feel a bit like you know that’s your role as Mom. That’s your role as dad and and feel that difference and actually we’re the same on the inside and we usually mostly want the same things in relationships. And what we really need is to feel seen and heard and understood by each other and like we’re working on this stuff together.
14:09.78
adadspath
I Love that like you said it’s it’s you need to be on the same team you are on the same team and you just need to remember that you’re on the same team right? Um, and so what would you advise to a dad who say okay I don’t have a lot of experience being a dad or being a great.
14:14.88
Catherine
M.
14:24.29
Catherine
And.
14:27.67
adadspath
Being a great partner What that would mean So how how do I make sure that I’m sort of sharing or doing more than my share even of parental duties like yeah, how would you start starting there.
14:40.92
Catherine
Um, that’s such a good question and that’s such ah, a fantastic way to be um, looking at it to be aiming for that I think um, thinking about needs is a really important part of this so really taking ah an act. Role in thinking about what your children need and what your partner needs and also taking responsibility for a whole task. So A great example of this could be like your kids’ clothes. Do you know what clothes your kids have got do you know what? they’re growing out ah of what they need when they need a new pair of shoes. What they need for the new season coming up I mean in terms of the weather changing although you might have actually a very fashionable kid who needs something for for the new season coming up. Um, because often what happens is that ah mum will.
15:17.65
adadspath
Yeah, yeah.
15:24.55
adadspath
Ah, indeed indeed. Yeah yeah.
15:31.50
Catherine
Hold on to this kind of knowledge and this awareness and she’ll say to Dad. Ah you know can you can you take take the kid out and get some new shoes or can you order some new shoes online and then the dad will come straight back to mom and say well what size are they wearing at the moment so she feels like she’s like the holder of knowledge and it is a huge amount of work and responsibility. So one way that can be really helpful to think about it is um if you were working if you were in those business partner kind of roles with your wife would you go to her with this kind of question if you were in a professional environment or would you think I don’t need to bother her with this I can work this out for myself. Because sometimes we get so used to thinking that the kind of mom in the family whether it’s your own mother who you grew up with or the person who’s the mom in the family now is the keeper of knowledge and I’ll just go to her and she’ll tell me but it’s it’s frustrating and exhausting to hold that level of response. Ability So thinking about doing the whole task yourself that really helps to keep that balance.
16:31.24
adadspath
That’s um I never thought of it quite like that. But you’re right? It’s that’s when you need to be a fantastic business partner right? You need to be super organized. You know you can go back to your boss and say I don’t know how to get this information but you better be sure you don’t know how to get that information right? so.
16:38.41
Catherine
Um.
16:44.20
Catherine
Um, yeah, exactly he.
16:48.26
adadspath
Or else. You’re not doing your job right? So ah because I was going to say another ah a key you know that’s worked for a lot of a lot of dads I talked to is keeping things online and organized online. You know so you know keeping you know your schedules online for most of us our calendars and ah so you can.
17:00.17
Catherine
Um.
17:06.90
adadspath
Do things like meal planning and do invite like hey this is you know what? what? you know? let’s talk about what dinners we want to make this week. This is what I’m thinking you know and you could start there but but come to the table with suggestions and ready to ah to lead you know and and it’s not your it’s not. You’re in charge. But it’s.
17:22.11
Catherine
Um.
17:24.77
adadspath
Hey this is now a partnership that we you can see that I’m contributing to um and hopefully you know? yeah.
17:27.78
Catherine
Yeah, absolutely I mean a shared to do list that everybody adds things to and everybody takes things from is really powerful tool rather than one of you feeling like you’re responsible for holding that in your head you’ve both got it down either on Paper. You know a big book in the kitchen or better off. Probably these days that you know some kind of shared note that you can access from anywhere or or in the calendar. Best way to approach this stuff.
17:52.91
adadspath
Yeah, absolutely absolutely and with all all everything we’re talking about communicating and taking on responsibilities that all leads to one of the bigger challenges. We’ve started with or or can help you I should say solve that challenge which is self care and your identity. And some of those really big um sort of transcendental issues that affect us that impact us that we don’t have as much time to think about or deal with but are feeling uncomfortable with for a lot of reasons you know? Ah so I think that’s sort of interesting to to talk about a little bit is just once. When you have that open communication on some of the basic things. That’s when you can also go a little deeper and say hey like we’re parents now this is weird right? like this is and and also going down the road like hey I’m really feeling tired right now.
18:38.23
Catherine
Um.
18:41.79
Catherine
Be he.
18:43.66
adadspath
And and you know your partner might say the same thing and say okay, great. Well let’s figure out how I can get some time and how you can get some time and start with you. You know like but communication there is is so key and I think the self-care aspect is is huge.
18:56.38
Catherine
Yeah, Absolutely I mean if we’re going to get our needs. Met We usually need to let the other see what’s going on inside us and and that’s ultimately what intimacy isn’t it is is you know letting your partner see what’s going on inside you. So you’re both more likely to get your needs met and to feel satisfied in your relationship um or or even just with your life. Generally you know more likely to get the need that you have for a break or a lion or whatever it looks like and you’re also going to end up feeling much closer through that because it is a huge thing. The amount of change that happens and. Those moments where we look at each other and go like you say Wow we’re parents now like this is a massive transition. They’re so connecting they’re so important that we that we’re really going on the journey together and and that we’re being open and honest with each other about the things we’re finding hard about it. As Well as really sharing in the joy. I mean it’s the most incredible thing to both fall in love alongside each other with this new person who you’ve brought into the world together and sharing that joy is so connecting as well.
20:04.83
adadspath
Yeah, absolutely yeah, absolutely and um, when we talk when we get into these podcasts. We can get into you know some of the really focus on the challenges and we all know that there’s so many just blessings and benefits and everything. But.
20:11.78
Catherine
And.
20:19.60
adadspath
Ah, working through some of the challenges that we’re all facing or a lot of dads facing is is um, is why we’re here and why it’s working you know I think this is a has been a super interesting Conversation. So far you know and um, but I want to go to a. Probably another interesting area sex sex cells right? Yeah, ah, let’s talk about. Yeah now, let’s talk about intimacy right? because um, you know as you said you know in a straight relationship. The the woman you know tends to change in a lot lot more ways than the dad and you know I think um.
20:39.68
Catherine
Definitely let’s talk about sex.
20:52.58
Catherine
Um.
20:54.68
adadspath
The the dad or the the male is typically probably ready for sex earlier. Um, but when how do you? How do you I Guess start that process back up starting there and start communicating that in a way that’s respect you know, respectful. That’s not like hey you just had a baby. Let’s have sex but like how do you? Yeah yeah.
20:59.59
Catherine
Um.
21:14.52
adadspath
Ah, leave it at that. Ah.
21:15.84
Catherine
Ah, yeah, that’s that’s a big question isn’t it. That’s enough for us to talk about so um, ah so many things to say about this is such a big area isn’t it I mean First of all, there’s a very common difference between men and women which obviously is not true of all men and women but the most. Common dynamic within straight relationships is that men will tend to want to have physical connection in order to feel emotional connection whereas women tend to need the emotional connection in order to want the physical connection and this can feel like a bit of a catch 22 and it’s really important. To recognize this because otherwise we can get stuck in the thing where he is trying to initiate something in a way to her that feels really insensitive and so then she rejects him and then he feels really rejected and she can be quite insensitive about that. So both. Feel like the other is being insensitive and you know nobody’s intending to be but because of that misunderstanding of what each other needs we can get stuck in a cycle. So especially when you haven’t been having much sex recently It’s really important to focus on the intimacy side of things and you know. Intimacy in the sense of the way that you feel when you spend time together without distractions when you feel like you’re feeling known and seen by each other so there’s a few things that we can do here. Ah.
22:42.92
Catherine
1 of my top recommendations is to get your phone out of your bedroom so that at least the time that you’re spending together in the bedroom you you don’t have any screens around um another one is those habits that we were talking about because you know how much couples touch each other is largely a question of habit. So keeping those rituals up like a hagonicus to say hello and goodbye a cuddle once the baby is asleep. Those are really important. Um and another really important tip that I can give especially to dads in this area is to do what you can to try and break the connection with physical touch and sex right. Because if you make a move on your partner every time you touch them what you’ll do is you’ll put them off touching you and it’s very understandable if you haven’t had sex for a while and you want to feel connected to your partner and the way that you feel closest to them is when you have sex. Ah. Course if they approach you or if they respond to you. You’re going to get excited about it. You’re going to think hey we’re getting back. Let’s get on with here. You kind you’re going to want to do it but that can really put them off and you can create a cycle where she recoils as soon as you approach which is really what you want to? avoid so when your partner. Is physical with you in you know any from from the my most minor but touch on the arm to you know feeling like a bit more enthusiastic. You know, just respond as lovingly as you can hug her back kiss her back but see it as the dance that it is and.
24:10.26
Catherine
Don’t be the one who just tries to jump in so far so quickly that you put her off but let that dance play out in a more natural way.
24:18.18
adadspath
I Love that That’s such great advice I mean it’s easy. You hit the all the headline most most males do connect the physical with you need the physical for the emotional and but it’s it’s not easy, but it’s very possible to break that cycle and to break that connection. Ah.
24:32.10
Catherine
And.
24:36.14
adadspath
Which is more powerful. You know my opinion for for us dads as well. You know it will help create a better relationship certainly with our partners but the other thing you mentioned which I think is um, we need to normalize is ah being rejected you know I think a lot of.
24:50.54
Catherine
And.
24:54.70
adadspath
A lot of us feel like wow I you know tried to initiate intimacy. Ah you know 4 times and got rejected you know 2 times and like that really didn’t feel good and that’s fine that it doesn’t feel good and to acknowledge that it doesn’t feel good but like just thinking I mean. When you were dating what was your percentage right? or like what was you know and it’s it’s like and and that’s not even the the the primary point right? because it’s you know you’re in a relationship and that’s what it is. It’s you know, almost like a barometer of where things are and how she’s feeling and how you’re feeling and um, it’s also you know on a.
25:13.82
Catherine
M.
25:32.60
adadspath
Sort of half jokingly but it is ah good to be rejected in your life right? The more we get rejected sort of the stronger the stronger we get um but it but it is go ahead. Yeah yeah.
25:36.52
Catherine
Um.
25:40.83
Catherine
Yeah, yeah, no I was just gonna say that and when it comes to other things. We don’t expect to both be in the same in the mood for the same thing at the same time right? If you say to your partner hey do you fancy watching the show tonight and they’re like ah no I’m too tired I need to go to bed early maybe tomorrow night you know we don’t. Kind of take it. It. So personally think of it as such a big deal so when we have that really strong reaction. It’s really helpful to turn inwards and to look at what’s going on there and to think about if there’s another conversation that we need to have.
26:11.72
adadspath
The app. Yep I mean that’s um, that’s the right approach I like that a lot So when you’re in a situation where we you know you feel like the intimacy is not there. What’s the line between sort of seeking professional help. And trying to work through it yourselves I mean you try and work through it. But but I mean when do you advise couples that hey it’s time to see someone like you.
26:35.80
Catherine
Honestly I think that if you think that professional help might be helpful then the sooner you go the better the sooner we seek out some kind of professional help. The easier is to make the changes that we’re looking for with the help of that professional. And the longer we get to enjoy the Benefits. So I really wouldn’t put it off. You know if you go and you seek professional help and you’re just struggling with a little niggle then you’ll probably only do a couple of sessions and then things will be better. Um, So I think that. Sometimes we can think about it like things have to be quite bad in order for us to reach out for help and I would really encourage people to look at it the complete opposite way and to see it as a very positive thing and think the sooner we the sooner we do it the longer we’re going to benefit.
27:16.56
adadspath
Absolutely in taking that one step further I look at it saying hey our relationship’s like an 8 right now and we want to be an 11 right? How do we? How do we get to an 11 and that we might need some external help. You know, see someone once or twice to get us on that track right.
27:25.20
Catherine
Um.
27:28.95
Catherine
Yeah, fantastic because you know you deserve it and there’s so many benefits for each of you and also for your kids I mean it’s It’s such a wonderful thing for children to grow up in that kind of environment with. Parents who are willing to pay attention to how they feel about things and to do what they need to do to make things the best they can possibly be for themselves. It’s wonderful thing.
27:50.83
adadspath
Absolutely such a because it’s such an important life skill for all of us to learn and you want to communicate that to our kids you know so one last question I have for you What? what’s the single most important piece of advice. You would give to new Dads specifically to help.
28:05.39
Catherine
Yeah, this is this is such a good question I mean no pressure to go to the single based or it’s powerful faith. You know what I would what I would say to to dads is.
28:08.71
adadspath
You know, maintain a strong relationship with our partners. What’s one piece of advice. Good heavy question to end with here.
28:24.30
Catherine
What I would want them to do is to know that a happy relationship is within their power and the reason I say that is because we’re all brought up with a lot of messages about men and women that we’re not necessarily even that conscious with and there are 2 that are particularly unhelpful. And 1 of them is the idea that um when it comes to relationships. It’s ultimately women’s Responsibility. You know it’s up to women. They tend to be the ones who sought out the social arrangements and you probably grew up in an environment where it was mum not dad who sent the birthday cards or what the birthday presence or whatever that looked like. So you might feel like is something that women deal with and it’s not really up to you and then you might also consciously or unconsciously I don’t know whether you’ll be whether you’ll agree with this will but you might also have noticed that women tend to be described as kind of irrational and impossible to please.
29:20.88
adadspath
No, no, no comment.
29:22.68
Catherine
And so when so when you when you combine those 2 messages. It’s easy to see how as ah, a husband and a dad you might kind of take a back seat because you might think well I don’t really know whether I’ll be able to please her anyway. And it’s kind of up to her to deal with this stuff. So what am I going to do and what I want to tell you is that neither of those things are true or have to be true for you because men can do this stuff too men who engage with relationships have often very very happy partners and. Then they discover that women are not at all irrational or impossible to please. They’re easy to please. They just want to see those efforts made so when you put those 2 things together I hope that feels like a really empowering message.
30:11.28
adadspath
It does absolutely absolutely and it’s true I’ve talked to a lot of dads and experienced it myself. I mean you you hit the nail on the head. Obviously you’re an expert in what you do it’s. Really been a pleasure Katherine appreciate you joining us and we’ll have all the information in our show notes but you can check her out at insightconnection dot u k and it’s insight and connection on Instagram um, but Catherine Thank you again. This is tremendous. Awesome.
30:39.11
Catherine
Thank you? Well, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you.